65. Marketing for People Who Hate Marketing: A Fresh Take on Word-of-Mouth Referral I Judy Murdoch

If social media feels overwhelming and traditional marketing strategies aren’t working for you, you’re going to love this conversation! In this episode, I sit down with Judy Murdoch, a Marketing Root Work Coach, to dive into word of mouth marketing, one of the most effective and overlooked ways to get consistent, high quality clients for your service based business.

Judy breaks down the psychology of referrals, why people love recommending businesses, and how you can make it easy and natural for your clients and network to send dream clients your way. If you’re a VA, OBM, or service provider tired of constantly posting on social media and chasing leads, this episode will change how you approach marketing forever.

Key Points Covered:
✨ Why word-of-mouth marketing is more powerful than social media
✨ How to ask for referrals without feeling awkward
✨ Why creating safety makes clients more likely to recommend you
✨ The key to positioning yourself so people want to refer you
✨ How to set up a simple referral system that actually works

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Andra Elibero: Andrea here, your host and passionate business coach and scaling strategist for Soulful Service Providers and Coaches. Welcome to another episode of Soulpreneur Scaling Stories. Have you ever wanted to look behind the curtain of your fellow entrepreneur's business to see what actually went into scaling it?

[00:00:22] Well, you are in for a treat because that's exactly what we are doing here. In each episode, we will be uncovering the truth the lessons and the stories behind what it truly takes for solepreneurs to scale their businesses intentionally. I'm hoping that their stories will help you to unlock the true potential of your business so you can create your own soulful, abundant, and aligned laptop lifestyle through intentional scaling.

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[00:01:03] You never miss an empowering episode filled with real stories and soulful insights.

[00:01:11] Hello and welcome back to Solepreneur Scaling Stories. I am here with Judy Murdoch, who is a marketing Root work coach, and I'm really excited for this conversation because it is going to be about something that is often.

[00:01:27] Overlooked or oversimplified in especially online service provider businesses. Hi, Judy. How are you?

[00:01:35] Judy Murdoch: Really? Well, Andrea, how are you

[00:01:37] Andra Elibero: am doing well. Um, can you please first off explain what a marketing root work coach does? So what does this mean?

[00:01:46] Judy Murdoch: Okay. All right. Um, so marketing group work, the reason I began this practice, um, I used to be a more conventional small business marketing coach and I would work with businesses that needed [00:02:00] a constant stream of leads. So realtors and mortgage brokers, kind of these, these businesses where. They, they just need kind of like a constant stream of new people coming into their business.

[00:02:12] Um, and it was, it wasn't very,

[00:02:17] it was not, I'm trying to think of the right word for it. It just, it wasn't very satisfying for me. Um, because one of the things I really do love is I love working with heart centered business owners and I like working with business owners where who they are. And how they show up, their presence is really, really important.

[00:02:37] And so I wanted to work with folks who were, as I said, more heart centered, more mission focused and also 1 of the things that comes up is it can be 1 of the hardest things for. More hard centered entrepreneurs is it's really hard to show up as yourself because there's so much pressure in our culture [00:03:00] to, I think, um, to, to be a certain kind of person to be very polished or, you know, whatever that happens to be.

[00:03:08] And so the root work piece is where I work with clients and I. You know, we work a lot with resistance and we work with scary stories. We work up all those things that kind of like come up between our authentic selves and then showing up authentically in public. So that's what a root work coach does. So I help them with just the plain old, you know, um, nuts and bolts marketing.

[00:03:33] Right? Just all that stuff that we know. But I also help them with that whole piece about around like, you know, like, why are you not getting it done? Right? Um, because that's where kind of the scary stories and stuff show up. So that's what

[00:03:46] Andra Elibero: Awesome. So marketing and the deeper work that's involved in order to market authentically as who you actually are, not who you think that you should show up as. I love that so much. As anyone who [00:04:00] listens to this podcast knows, we are all about authenticity and alignment and all that fun stuff over here.

[00:04:04] So very cool. Okay. So can you please share? So I'm so excited about this because. We had connected on a networking call, and when you had shared what your specialization is, I was like, one, like, Oh, amazing, because I didn't know that this existed in terms of getting coached around this topic. And two, especially for online service providers, this is so key.

[00:04:33] So what is it, what type of marketing do you specialize in?

[00:04:37] Judy Murdoch: Okay. What I specialize in is word of mouth, word of mouth marketing.

[00:04:43] I did not start out

[00:04:45] with the idea that I would focus on word of mouth. But what happened was, this was so funny, whenever I would talk to somebody, somebody who's already experienced a fair amount of success in their career. And I would often ask them, well, how did you get your clients or how did, how [00:05:00] did, how did customers find you?

[00:05:01] And everybody. I swear to God said word of mouth,

[00:05:05] they didn't say social media, they didn't say I had this amazing newsletter. Everybody said word of mouth.

[00:05:12] Um, and that was really interesting to me. So I want to say to word of mouth marketing and referral marketing. This is not a new topic for me.

[00:05:21] When I was working with the mortgage brokers, realtors, et cetera.

[00:05:24] We, we, that was what we did because for them, that, that's, that's, that is how they build their businesses because there are so many realtors out there. Right? And so the way, the way they always get customers is generally speaking, somebody who's selling their house or buying a house will say, do you know somebody?

[00:05:44] Did you work with a realtor? Did you work with someone you liked who did a good job for you? Right? So that's what happened. So let's talk a little bit about word of mouth and what it is, because I think everybody kind of, we all have kind of an intuitive take on what word of mouth is. [00:06:00] Um, word of mouth is, first of all, it is when customers show up, you know, you get an inquiry from somebody because another person recommended you to That's word of mouth in a nutshell.

[00:06:13] That is referral marketing. Um, it is a very old form of marketing. It is the oldest form of marketing, right? As long as human beings have been trading things, we have been telling, we like to tell other human beings about, um, A good product or service, right? Like, Oh, I know this guy. He's got the best honey, right?

[00:06:33] You got to check out his stall. So it's an old form of marketing. And the other thing that I love about word of marketing, there's nothing I don't love about word of mouth marketing, but I especially love the fact that we. Give referrals because it feels really good when we give referrals, right? So anytime if if if you, you know, anyone listening, you know, just like think about, um, somebody asked you for, um, to suggest a really good [00:07:00] restaurant or tell me a movie that I should see.

[00:07:04] And it feels really great, right? To be able to say. Oh, there's this really good Italian restaurant, it's mom and pop, most people don't know about it, you should check it out. And nothing feels better than the, when the person comes back and says, I had the most amazing meal, thank you so, so much. So word of mouth is one of these situations where everybody wins, right?

[00:07:24] So the person who is asking for the referral, well, they get a solution, or they get inspiration, the business, of course. You know, it's coming out better because I have a new client and you, the person who gave the referral, you feel good. You get to be a little bit of a rock star. It feels really good. So that is, those are all the really super wonderful things about word of mouth marketing.

[00:07:52] Andra Elibero: love that you brought up that it feels really good. I reminded everybody that it feels really good to make a referral because I feel [00:08:00] that in my experience people are hesitant to maybe ask or point out or you know, Make it known that to their current clients or whoever and we can get more into this that right that like, oh, like, please refer me because they feel bad or like they're asking for a favor.

[00:08:16] So can you address that a bit because I would really love to change the mindset around this.

[00:08:21] Judy Murdoch: Yes. I would love to. Um, cause one of the things I do talk a lot about is I think most, most of us, you know, the folks listening to your podcast right now, you are thinking. You know, I have clients. I have a really good track record. I do really good work. I have gotten some really, really great feedback from my clients.

[00:08:44] Right? So the automatic assumption is, well, of course. So why would they, why would they not send me like gobs of referrals? Right? Like we just think they would. So here's, this is a really important little thing about referrals. So as I [00:09:00] said, people give referrals because they look good, right? They look good.

[00:09:05] They feel good. Get to be a little bit of a hero. You have some secret information. However, however, What happens if, what if I, somebody asked me, I'm going to talk, I'm going to just refer to your particular area. Um, what if I am saying, Hmm, you know, I'm looking for a VA to help me with this. task. And somebody says to me, Oh, you should talk to this great VA I have worked with.

[00:09:33] Other people work with them. They're amazing. So I call the VA and the VA says to me, Oh my God, I'm so busy. I am so busy. I have so many clients. I can put you on a wait list, but I can't work with you right now. Okay. So I call my friend back and I'm maybe not upset, but just kind of like bummed. And I say, Oh my God, I really want to work with them, but they have a wait list.

[00:09:56] So what happens? Okay. Like my friend is not looking like a [00:10:00] hero, you know? I mean, it didn't work out. And so that's the issue is that people will give you a referral, but they really, really want to know you need to give them some assurances that yes, you will look really good. If you refer me,

[00:10:17] so that is something that the whole thing I do generally speaking with my clients and with participants and classes is it is all about how do we set things up so that.

[00:10:33] We can really assure the people are either clients or colleagues that when you give me a referral you will look like that you want to give these people assurance that yeah you'll look great you know so that's the whole thing it's creating the safety for people

[00:10:48] Andra Elibero: really love that word, creating safety that, listen, if you're going to kind of put your neck out for me that I'm going to deliver.

[00:10:57] Judy Murdoch: that's

[00:10:57] Andra Elibero: Hmm. And can you give, so [00:11:00] I don't, so

[00:11:01] let's say that if you were, you know, talking to somebody or kind of some general things that you share that you share freely about, yeah, like what are some best practices for word of mouth?

[00:11:13] Judy Murdoch: Yes. Happy to share those. Okay. So, so, um, I won't, I probably will not get to all of them because of time. However, the top things I tell people are number one, ask for referrals, tell people, I mean, really honestly, um, tell people, I would love, I mean, like, I have spaces in my practice, I would love some referrals.

[00:11:39] You know, I'm in my, I'm growing my business, I have a class, I would love for you to send me people. That would be wonderful. So that's the first thing. I'm oversimplifying a bit, there's a bit more art to the way in which we can ask for a referral. In fact, I like to use the phrase, invite people to send us referrals.

[00:11:58] Isn't that nice? [00:12:00] Invite people. Yeah. Exactly right. Yeah, because this is a good thing. This is, you know, this is a win

[00:12:07] Andra Elibero: Right. And so along those lines, I think this is important too. A lot of people feel like They either have to, or it will make such a big difference, or to make it the center of the re the invitation to say or point out like, oh, I will, I have a referral fee and make that a really big deal. And I, I'm going to guess that, given what we've talked about so far, that that's a nice thing to do, but maybe not as important as people think it might be or as people think it's

[00:12:39] Judy Murdoch: yeah, I agree. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about this idea of how do you reward people

[00:12:47] Andra Elibero: mm-Hmm.

[00:12:47] Judy Murdoch: referrals?

[00:12:49] It's kind, it's a little bit of a gray area. So my first, the first thing I tell people is we don't pay people to give us referrals. It's not a job. They aren't our [00:13:00] sales people. Okay, so that's the 1st thing to understand where it can get a little bit gray is where, um,

[00:13:08] I think.

[00:13:09] Okay, so I'm going to I'm going to try to get to the distinction. When when is it? Yes. And when is it? And no, I think that. It's a yes, as long as the money is not the main incentive. Does that make sense? If the fee is small, if it's a, if it's a small but meaningful gift, um, affiliate, um, programs, you know, like that's often, I, I often see the fee as being like a sweetener, you know, it's like a, something nice.

[00:13:39] But people would be doing it anyway. So I don't want to tell people not to offer a fee, um, but I would discourage it. I, I would say instead of giving a fee, try to think of a gift, like it can be like a small gift, but something that is small, but, but genuinely meaningful. So like, you know, it could be a [00:14:00] discount on something that you sell.

[00:14:02] It could be, um, I mean, there's so many possibilities here, but I would generally try to stay away from the money and try to think more about, like, what kind of a, what kind of a meaningful gift could I give somebody? So you think of it as, they're already feeling good, and then by giving somebody a gift, that, that just makes it feel all the sweeter for somebody.

[00:14:22] Andra Elibero: It's so lovely how you frame it, how you talk about it, it's, and it is, I think, I mean, in essence, and it's kind of funny because it's almost the opposite, and it's probably why you do this, the opposite of when you talk about the realtors and these people who just need help. Lots and lots of people and so it's kind of like the people become numbers just like I need this number I need to you know to reach out to this many people as the direct and Antithesis of that is really this right is this kind of like

[00:14:53] Invitation this warm the sweetener like this gifts and and really making people making it a really lovely [00:15:00] experience for for somebody

[00:15:01] Judy Murdoch: it's because this is a relationship and that is the thing about word of mouth. I think that works especially well for the people that I work with. And it sounds like the people that you enjoy working with as well. Um, I'm very, I mean, a lot of my pleasure. from being an entrepreneur is about relationships.

[00:15:22] I genuinely enjoy the relationships that I cultivate. Um, there are a few things that make me happier than finding somebody who's like minded and like hearted, you know, like you get into sort of like my like minded, like hearted affinity club, if you would. Um, it's a very informal club, but. Everybody in the club is greatly appreciated.

[00:15:44] So if you are somebody who does business, but you are also very relational, you really enjoy relationships with other people, um, word of mouth is especially well suited to those of us, which is the reason again, [00:16:00] why I teach. Word of mouth, and I'm not teaching people how to like, um, I don't know, right?

[00:16:05] Killer content for social media. Um, there was like one other thing I wanted to say about that, but the relational piece, um,

[00:16:15] I think everybody is. Oh, I want to talk about the number thing that you had brought up. So numbers are important from the perspective of.

[00:16:28] Um,

[00:16:29] we always want to have new partners, affinity partners coming into our business.

[00:16:39] So, one of the things that might. I don't know if it's a difficult thing. I think it's something people just don't think about unless you're the type of person who's just always reaching out by nature. Some people are like that. I am not to be honest with you. Um, and you, I, and you know, what I tell people [00:17:00] is you really need to make a point to be constantly, um, you know, like meeting people, cultivating relationships, taking care of people.

[00:17:12] Um, so you do want to be bringing people in. You want to be bringing the right people in,

[00:17:17] but it still means you're going to have to, you know, go to a networking event. You're going to have to go to events. You're going to have to do things so that you meet people and you're bringing new people in.

[00:17:26] Andra Elibero: Beautiful point. And so let's go, I took us down a little side road, but we were on the main road of talking about some of the basics, right? Of what you would tell people about word of mouth marketing. So I'm curious what some of those other pieces would be.

[00:17:42] Judy Murdoch: Okay. So actually that piece about the, the constant, the small consistent work that actually is, um, a best practice of referrals. So let's talk about another one that people can get kind of, it messes a lot of people up. Maybe not necessarily your [00:18:00] folks, but, um, anybody who's in the healing profession, anybody who's in a profession consulting or coaching where it can be a little like.

[00:18:10] Um, clear as to what exactly you do do. I mean, I've actually had people say to me, like, what is it that you do?

[00:18:16] Andra Elibero: yeah.

[00:18:17] Judy Murdoch: Um, because it is, it isn't clear. So another best practice is when we invite people to give us referrals, we want to make it really, really easy for them. Super duper easy. So, I have something I call an ideal referral description.

[00:18:38] An ideal referral description is, as it says, this is, if you were to send me somebody, this would be the ideal person to send my way, okay? And that ideal referral description has to be very conversational. No jargon, you know, no big words. I always tell people, when you [00:19:00] think about Somebody referring you, I want you to imagine that they're sitting at a table, the other person is sitting across from them, they're, they're having coffee, or maybe they're having a beer.

[00:19:11] I don't know, but it's really informal because a lot of referrals happen in very informal situations because people are always complaining. And, you know, that's always an opportunity, right, to offer a referral. Oh, hey, I know somebody who can help. So when I talk about this ideal referral description, you want to talk about two things.

[00:19:36] You want to talk about what they do. So you're going to, I mean, that, and that's fairly straightforward. Um, I'm going to use the example of a

[00:19:46] Massage therapist. Um, because that's very straightforward. Really good example.

[00:19:52] So, Massage therapy can be very subtle. Um, there can be a great deal of nuance in the work that a [00:20:00] massage therapist does.

[00:20:01] Um, and, and you can get quite technical in the way you work with the body and muscles and bone, bone structures and such. However,

[00:20:10] um, if, if you are a massage or okay, you are the client. Of a massage therapist. Okay. And you are sitting there, you're having a cup of coffee. And the other person tells you, I have this really nagging lower back pain.

[00:20:27] It's, you know, it is keeping me from doing things. I like to do, like, I can't go swimming. Um, and I.

[00:20:36] You know, like I talked to my primary care provider, they suggest that I take, I don't know, like Tylenol with codeine or something like that. And I really don't want to, I don't want to have to do like use these heavy duty pain meds.

[00:20:51] Now this is a great opportunity for the massage therapist Client to say, I know somebody and [00:21:00] they helped me with this problem. They helped me with my lower back pain. They not only did they help me with it, but it has not come back. Because they taught me some exercises, you know, to kind of like strengthen the muscles and no painkillers.

[00:21:14] No pain meds. Um, they're not absolutely against it, but they really strongly prefer that. You don't do it and, um, they are a lovely. This is a lovely person. They made me feel completely at ease. Ease. They have a really, really beautiful, um, you know, room where they do this work. They use aromatherapy. It was a great experience.

[00:21:36] That that's a great referral. Great referral right there. Now, what do you think this other person with back pain is going to do? Right? So chances are, they will say, Oh my gosh, They sound great. Can I have their number? Can I get their business card? And of course your client's going to say yes. That is a really, really great referral.[00:22:00] 

[00:22:00] A not so good referral would have been something along the lines of they are a Reiki practitioner. They practice an ancient Japanese, you know, Um, you know, this ancient Japanese practice of, you know, making sure that the muscles are aligned and, you know, your chakras are aligned. I'm making all this up, of course, but you don't want to

[00:22:21] Andra Elibero: so, yeah, and I think that the equivalent and the online service provider world would be something like, so two things. One is, let's say somebody is a, let's say a virtual assistant and they're not clear about their offers. So, because there's so many things that somebody can do, but there's only certain things that you like or things that you want to do or where you're headed.

[00:22:49] So I've had the experience of people, you know, very generically sending people my way and not understanding that, well, I was a virtual assistant, then I became an OBM and plus a, you know, and [00:23:00] so, and it's like, okay, well, I don't do this anymore, you know? So, being clear, one, about who, the type of client you're looking for, who needs help, so that way you're getting, right, appropriate people that you can serve, right, and not getting so, it sounds like, not really focusing in on the technical whatever, so what's the transformation, what's going to happen at the end of the day, and really.

[00:23:23] Judy Murdoch: Exactly. That is exactly right. That is exactly right. So with the VA, for example, there are so many places that a VA can play, correct? There's so many things they could do. Currently, honestly, like I have a problem where I suddenly discovered, um, in my Quicken account that I had, um, I guess like downloaded a whole bunch of transactions and they showed up in the wrong account.

[00:23:49] And it's going to be a real pain to go through that account and try to get rid of all the wrong transactions. So I would love to find a VA who could do [00:24:00] this. I'm guessing a VA could do this in two hours and it would probably be worth paying them to do this. So, so literally I, you know, like my ideal VA would be a person who knows Quicken, who, and, and perhaps they have a better way to do it than I do.

[00:24:16] But, um, you know, that would very much be worth my time. So, I'm, I'm giving you a real, a real complaint,

[00:24:24] Andra Elibero: Right. Exactly. Right. Somebody please reach out to poor Judy who's having issues. Yeah.

[00:24:32] Judy Murdoch: my gosh, I'm not looking forward to this process of going

[00:24:34] Andra Elibero: I don't blame you. And yeah, and somebody who is more focused on creative things or that's what they love doing. They're not going to be an appropriate person to help you. So,

[00:24:43] Judy Murdoch: no, they would not, this would be, this would be, It's make their head explode. I

[00:24:48] Andra Elibero: things in my own life. Yes. All right. So I have a question for you. In your opinion, if we're talking specifically for online service providers, do [00:25:00] you believe that they could, okay, so let me back this up. So before I ask my question, I know a lot of OBMs, VAs, um,

[00:25:11] copywriters, like all sorts of these people who really, really dislike marketing.

[00:25:18] in terms of what they see traditional marketing. Oh, I have to post on social media. I have to do that. They feel like they have to do all of these things. And it is one of the reasons that they are in this is because they don't love doing all of that. So in your opinion, do you believe that one could solely focus on word of mouth marketing and have a successful online service writer business?

[00:25:42] Or do you think this is a piece of the puzzle?

[00:25:46] Judy Murdoch: Absolutely. They could absolutely do it. Um, I think the main question to be asking, um, I would say currently, My primary marketing is cultivating word of mouth. [00:26:00] That is how I do it. However, I do have other things I do from a marketing perspective to support the word of mouth, if that makes sense. So for example, I have a newsletter.

[00:26:14] So I guess the way I want to say it is this way.

[00:26:20] Word of mouth, if you did absolutely nothing else but word of mouth, You would, you could probably do just fine if you were really like kind of sticking to it and, and really doing the work of meeting people, having a good referral description and so forth and so on.

[00:26:40] I think that there is a benefit to, to having other ways people can quote unquote, hang out with you and get to know you. So, um, I have a newsletter, um, because I really enjoy. Writing, um, you have a podcast. The podcast is another way people can hang out with [00:27:00] you and get to know you. So because we do live in this world where we have the internet, um, my, my thought is, um, come up with like maybe one or two ways that people can kind of get to know you before they call you.

[00:27:18] Um, it could be your website, you could do videos. And the second piece I will say about that is, um, do something that you genuinely enjoy. You know, that's fun. Um, I really enjoy writing and that's why writing is 1 of the things that I enjoy doing. I also enjoy podcasting. Um, if you'd like to do videos, I mean, honestly, like, the other piece is, um.

[00:27:43] Don't shy away from getting your personality in there. You know, like if you're a dog mama and you want to bring your dog in the video with you, bring the dog within the video with you. Because again, the whole thing with the marketing piece here is that you want people to get to know [00:28:00] you. You're a dog mama, so you know, right?

[00:28:03] Andra Elibero: And you know that because yes, they are. They are in my

[00:28:07] Judy Murdoch: yeah, yeah.

[00:28:09] Andra Elibero: are. I include them in my

[00:28:10] Judy Murdoch: Yes, exactly. But, but the other piece in that is that by sharing a little bit more of yourself and what you love, you know, you create like an automatic way for people to connect with you. So not saying necessarily like you just want your clients to be dog mamas, but I think that's just like, it's, it's a sweet aspect of who you are.

[00:28:31] And so I really do like if you love to go hiking. Do your video outdoors at your favorite hiking spot or something. I'm, I mean, I'm very, I'm really, I'm really quite serious about trying to bring in some of the things that you love and aspects of your life that are important. Um, I'm a cat mama, so my cats, you know, on occasion show up in some of my marketing and cool.

[00:28:55] Andra Elibero: And this really is, it is funny because. It's 100 [00:29:00] percent true. People work with people that they want to go to lunch with. They want to hang out with that, right? Like that they actually really like. So if you are offering people things to connect with you on, then you're giving them more chances to like you because we face it, there are a hundred other people that do the exact same service, right?

[00:29:19] But you're standing out or they're connecting with you. And the fact that, you know, if you're combining with, Oh, maybe somebody is talking about you and. you're connecting and then they look at you up online and they're like, Oh, she does this thing and that's so cool. You know? So that's just another motivation for them to connect with you.

[00:29:36] Judy Murdoch: Agreed, and I think to like, going back to this, like the comment that you made about safety, um, you know, like, for the people that do the work that they do in, in sort of the virtual assistance world, um, you know, like, there is a, a certain level of vulnerability, right? When you're turning over sort of the guts of your business.

[00:29:57] To someone else. Um, [00:30:00] so in a way it's a very, like your relationship with a va, it's pretty intimate. I mean, they are looking at your records, they are looking at like , they're looking at the guts of your business. So I think I, I tend to think that being a va there, there is a pretty big element of, um, making it important and just to make.

[00:30:26] people feel safe with you. And, and I would say, do not discount the importance of just showing up and being somebody where, you know, like you don't have to be like, um, you know, a model of virtue, but certainly to be somebody who is reassuring and kind and, um, like, you know, like not judgmental. I, all the VAs I've worked with are, are always.

[00:30:51] Like the nicest people, generally speaking, and they're super chill when it comes to, you know, like, Oh my God, did you see what that say? Oh, no, no, no [00:31:00] problem. You know, I can deal with it.

[00:31:01] Andra Elibero: hmm.

[00:31:01] Judy Murdoch: Um, so anyway,

[00:31:03] Andra Elibero: Yeah, I love that. And okay, so with everything we've been talking about for these online service providers who are, they're growing their business and they're like, Ooh, this word of mouth, like maybe this is, this really calls to me. I really love to focus on this. If you had to give one kind of final overarching, I don't know, tip, something like something that just comes to your mind that you would love to be the thing that they take home, they leave listening to this with, what would that be?

[00:31:30] Hmm.

[00:31:33] Judy Murdoch: make it deliberate, you know, really make it a part. Don't look, I mean, people have a tendency, as I said, at the beginning, we kind of think it's just going to happen, but it, but there are so many reasons it won't. So, really be deliberate about it, and um, I know, be deliberate, be conscious, and I'm gonna just say up front, it may feel awkward.[00:32:00] 

[00:32:00] You know, and that's okay, that's okay. It's better to, it's better to make an awkward ask for a referral than to worry too much about being polished and, um, and you will get better. You will get better over time, but, but make it just a very conscious, deliberate part of your marketing.

[00:32:19] Andra Elibero: I love that. And also the awkward thing, it's no matter what you do that's brand new, it's going to feel awkward. So it might as well

[00:32:26] Judy Murdoch: Yeah. Yes.

[00:32:29] Andra Elibero: and that you really enjoy.

[00:32:30] Judy Murdoch: Yes. That's how I say it. I, my, the way I usually position this with people is of all the marketing you can do, this is probably going to be the most difficult, not because asking for a referral in itself is difficult, but it is something that does make us feel rather vulnerable and low on the spot.

[00:32:48] And we worry about like,

[00:32:49] but do I deserve it? Have I earned it? You know, like those types of things. And so what, again, like I want to bring folks. like your attention back again to this idea that if you do [00:33:00] really good work, if you really have, you know, happy, um, satisfied clients, um, anybody who sends a referral to you, assuming you want them,

[00:33:10] um,

[00:33:11] it's, it's going to be a huge win.

[00:33:13] It's a huge win for everybody. So when you invite someone to give you a referral, really, you are not burdening them. are not.

[00:33:21] Andra Elibero: Perfect way to End this discussion and also Um, please let everybody know how they can stay in touch with you If you have any free gifts or anything like that if they want to know more about word of mouth marketing, where can they find you?

[00:33:39] Judy Murdoch: Okay, so I have a Substack. It's just Substack slash Judy Murdoch. Murdoch is spelled M U R D O C H. I do a weekly newsletter and the newsletter always has, I usually address one specific topic. It's usually marketing oriented, but it may also be more of a reward piece. Um, and I [00:34:00] will be creating a, um, self study, um, kind of mini workshop for people that will cover all the material that you and I talked about today.

[00:34:07] So it's really meant to be sort of a, um, kind of like an easy to, um,

[00:34:14] uh, an, an easy to integrate, um, a bunch of, a bunch of information on like, you know, what is it, what are the mistakes and like really clear specific steps about like, how can you implement word of mouth into your own business.

[00:34:28] Andra Elibero: love it. Love it. I think this is so applicable to this whole industry. So thank you so much for

[00:34:34] Judy Murdoch: Yeah,

[00:34:34] Andra Elibero: I really love this conversation

[00:34:37] Judy Murdoch: my pleasure, Andrea. Thank you. 

[00:34:40] Andra Elibero: Thank you so much for joining us today. I really hope you found inspiration and insights from today's episode. You know, scaling your business intentionally and from the inside out is a transformational process, but I'm here to support you every step of the way. [00:35:00] Head on over to dancingleafsolutions. com slash resources for free tools to help you do just that.

[00:35:05] And thank you again for being a part of the Soulpreneur Scaling Stories community. Your presence and dedication to growth inspire me every day.