81. The Power of Unique Positioning: How a Copywriter's Unconventional Process Transformed Her Business with Maria John

In this episode of Soulpreneur Scaling Stories, I chat with Maria John, a website copywriter who recently completed a rebrand of her signature offer, "Lights, Copy, Action." Maria shares her journey from being an "accidental entrepreneur" doing work she didn't enjoy to building a business centered around her unique copywriting process that delivers exceptional results for clients.

Maria reveals how her distinctive approach - a 3-6 hour narrative workshop with clients before writing their website copy - initially caused her to feel self-conscious and hesitant to promote it. Over time, she came to recognize this difference as her greatest strength, leading to more aligned clients and remarkable results, including one client who increased prices tenfold after implementing her copy.

This conversation is packed with honest reflections on the entrepreneurial journey, including Maria's experience with burnout, her decision to walk away from profitable but unfulfilling work, and the year-long process of rebuilding her business around work she loves.

Key Points Covered:

✨ Why rebranding an existing offer can dramatically change how you feel about your business

✨ The importance of professional design and messaging in showcasing your value

✨ How Maria's unique narrative workshop approach differentiates her from other copywriters

✨ Why you shouldn't let industry norms dictate your business process when you know your approach creates better results

✨ The reality of walking away from profitable work to build a business you love

✨ How test marketing your messaging on social media can help refine your offer before launching

✨ Why you don't necessarily need a perfectly designed sales page to start selling your offers

✨ The importance of financial planning and personal belief when making significant business pivots

Connect with Maria:

Website

Instagram

Threads

LinkedIn

Newsletter

Time to call "Cut!" on underperforming copy [Free Workshop]

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Andrea Elibero: Andrea here, your host and passionate business coach and scaling strategist for soulful service providers and coaches. Welcome to another episode of Solepreneur Scaling Stories. Have you ever wanted to look behind the curtain of your fellow entrepreneur's business to see what actually went into scaling it?

[00:00:22] Well, you are in for a treat 'cause that's exactly what we are doing here. In each episode, we will be uncovering the truth of the lessons and the stories behind what it truly takes for sold entrepreneurs to scale their businesses intentionally. I'm hoping that their stories will help you to unlock the true potential of your business so you can create your own soulful, abundant, and aligned laptop lifestyle through intentional scaling.

[00:00:46] So whether you're just starting out on your scaling journey or you're a seasoned entrepreneur seeking inspiration, this episode has something incredible in store for you. Are you ready to rise, grow, and create a business that fully supports your dream life? Well, let's [00:01:00] dive in. Before we begin, make sure to hit that subscribe buttons.

[00:01:03] You never miss an empowering episode filled with real stories and soulful insights.

[00:01:10] Hey, hello, everybody. Welcome to Soulpreneur Scaling Stories. I'm really excited to have Maria John, who is a website copywriter here today. Hello, Maria. How are you? 

[00:01:22] Maria John: Hi, Andrea. I'm doing good. I hope you are as well. Super excited to do this. 

[00:01:27] Andrea Elibero: Yes. I'm really excited to have you here. So you are a website copywriter and you told me before we started recording that you're just launching a new offer and going through a rebrand.

[00:01:40] And so this is what I would love to kind of jump into first. But before we do that, can you introduce yourself and share what you do in your business? 

[00:01:50] Maria John: Well, hello, Andrea's listeners. I'm Maria and I've been getting paid to write since 2018. I've been getting paid to think about words [00:02:00] since 2021, and I've been getting paid to write websites since 2021 again.

[00:02:06] Andrea Elibero: Awesome. So super focused on website copy. And so with this, can you talk about maybe what your most recent offer was and what the, what kind of caused this evolution to this new offer? 

[00:02:22] Maria John: Right. So. Um, last year I actually did a launch of my new website, um, and it was a fine website. In fact, parts of it are still up as I roll out this rebrand over the next few months.

[00:02:37] But essentially what happened was I DIY'd my website last year and I DIY'd it when I made the transition over to Showit. And if you don't know what Showit is, it's basically like a canva but just website design. And as I did it, Myself, I took months to do it and in the process I actually ended up deleting [00:03:00] sections of my own copy because I did not want to deal with having to design it and the website worked fine.

[00:03:06] In fact, that same offer worked totally fine. In fact, my biggest client from last year was super excited to actually partake in the offer. But I wasn't super happy with the offer. I was not happy with the sales page. And when I thought about it, I really, um, asked a couple of my previous clients. I also asked a couple of, uh, people on LinkedIn, what do you think of the offer?

[00:03:32] What do you think of the sales page? And while they all said it was fine, I felt like there was a lot of room for improvement. Uh, after all the business is my baby, as many listeners will relate to. And So in November, I decided that, okay, you know what, enough dilly dallying about this. Let me just actually get it professionally designed.

[00:03:54] So I ended up, uh, finding this designer through Threads, which has become my new favorite platform. [00:04:00] Um, and so her name is Da, she's the, uh, owner of Uh, the art creatives and she runs a design studio. She does incredible work and we just rolled out the sales page for the new offer yesterday. Um, and it's, it looks amazing.

[00:04:15] I feel so excited by my own offer and excitement. I haven't felt in a long time because I've been running my business for almost seven years now. And, um, There is just something so exciting to see the way it's been structured, the way someone else who actually knows what they're doing and not just, uh, taking, uh, translating their Canva skills.

[00:04:38] So that's what, uh, Um, so I've been going on essentially, uh, over these last few months and, um, the difference in my own perception of my own brand, uh, is really different. 

[00:04:51] Andrea Elibero: So the offer that you're launching, does it, then are you partnering with her or this is, did I misunderstand that piece? So what is the difference between what you're?

[00:04:58] Shifting to with your new [00:05:00] offer and what you had before? 

[00:05:01] Maria John: So it's actually the same signature offer that I had last year. Ah, okay. Okay. Um, it's, it's, it used to be called the signature narrative process. Now I've kind of shifted even the theme, I call it lights, copy action. It's a done for you website copy service that begins with in narrative workshop that kind of nails your positioning and messaging before we start our new copy.

[00:05:23] Um, and it's the same exact offer. It's just that I've. Rebranded it so that it fits my personality and my team a little more. Um, so that's really just what the rollout was about. And it took me a while to decide on it. Uh, but I'm honestly super happy with how it turned out. 

[00:05:43] Andrea Elibero: Okay, I got you. So this I think is something that's really interesting because a lot of times what I would like some of my clients that we work on and people they say, oh, well, that offer didn't work or nobody signed or like whatever.

[00:05:56] And it's not the most of the time. It's not the offer, right? It's the [00:06:00] positioning of the offer. It's like the things around it, how you talk about it, even it. And the, the change of the name that you just said is so much more actionable, right? Like, it has more excitement to it than what the previous name was.

[00:06:12] So are you seeing, well, I know you just launched it like literally two seconds ago. So, but it's interesting because I feel like I can hear so much more excitement, right? Like when you talk about it now that you have this like amazing sales page and it's designed and everything is, it doesn't feel, like, how does it feel now with this revamp?

[00:06:30] Maria John: Yeah, so, um, this offer specifically is something I don't see. I haven't seen any copywriter really do because a lot of copywriters will do the process starting with a very long questionnaire and then jumping right into the copy after maybe a one hour strategy call. This essentially starts with the strategy call.

[00:06:50] It's a strategy workshop that runs. Three to six hours. Um, and it's the exact same offer is just that I didn't talk too much about the narrative workshop, [00:07:00] uh, with my previous sales page. One of the reasons was because I did not want to design the whole thing. It was just a whole process and a whole mess.

[00:07:07] Um, but I noticed last year when I was doing all these discovery calls, um. The people on the discovery calls were getting really excited about the workshop and that's when I realized I made a mistake on my own sales page where I didn't talk about it enough, especially because it's something that people are unfamiliar with, even if they're familiar with website copy.

[00:07:30] Um, uh, in fact, selling the offer was. actually pretty easy last year. Um, there was no difficulty in selling the offer because the offer itself was good. Just the way it was packaged wasn't. Uh, and as, as a result of that, I know for a fact that people who've landed on my page might not have essentially, uh, clicked on the CTA, uh, just because of the way, like you said, I positioned it.

[00:07:54] Andrea Elibero: Yeah. Super, super important. What were, if you were to say maybe like one or two [00:08:00] lessons that you've learned from this process that you can pass on to the audience, what would those be? 

[00:08:06] Maria John: Uh, well, for starters, if you can do not DIY it, especially because if I calculate the amount of time I wasted trying to figure it out myself.

[00:08:18] Um, I'm not even talking hours. I'm talking at least months where I was just postponing. And a result of that, I actually lost six months of, um, you know, just selling the offer because I was just spending so much time to try to design it, trying to figure out the spacing when I should have just been figuring out the messaging, uh, how clients are responding to it, all of that.

[00:08:41] Um, and then the second thing is there are some parts you can DIY, like figuring out your offer, um, And you can actually still sell without a sales page. Um, this is something that I have noticed in the last few months. So when I shut down the old offer and I was in the process of, you know, [00:09:00] handing it over to the designer, I actually started up a wait list for this new offer, lights, copy action, and in the process.

[00:09:07] I actually ended up testing a lot of the messaging that I was already using on my written sales page that hadn't been published. And I started testing out the messaging on threads, on Instagram, on LinkedIn, which are the three platforms that I'm on. Um, and as, as a result of just testing it over the few last few weeks.

[00:09:26] Specifically the last three weeks, uh, I was able to get people who've not seen the sales page onto the waitlist, uh, which indicated that they were interested and curious buyers, uh, even if maybe they don't buy now. Um, I was also able to test and see what people really responded to. For example, in the offer, I provide, uh, one on one interviews with your previous clients so that we can figure what they have to say about.

[00:09:52] Your services before getting that down in the copy. I, I wasn't, I, this just had one line on my sales page, but [00:10:00] in the process of testing it out, I realized that people really responded well to it, which was very interesting. Um, so yeah, I think one really important lesson from this is that even if you think, you know, your offer really well, you have to see the way people respond to it, to understand what's important to them, just because you're so close to it and you've been spending maybe months or years on it.

[00:10:22] Yeah, 

[00:10:24] Andrea Elibero: and you may, you brought up a good point as well that I think a lot of people feel intimidated, especially if they're just starting out or they haven't, you know, they're not experts in sales page, copy design, like this is a whole. So if you're like, okay, I can't afford to dish out like a thousand, like whatever it is to, to have some of this done.

[00:10:43] So I feel like people are held back, right? Like they hold themselves back from that. And you said something that you're like, you don't need, yes, a sales page, obviously this is the gold standard, but obviously you need a sales page, but at the beginning you don't necessarily need one. I have a beta offer currently that, uh, [00:11:00] up until recently the sales page was a Google doc.

[00:11:02] And I have bought offers off of Google Docs. Is this, say, I'm not promoting saying no, this is all that you need, but no, but don't let not having a beautiful, fully designed, 100 percent optimized sales page stop you, right, from selling your things. Because you can 1000%, right, do it while you have these other things in the background, or else you're just wasting so much, right, you're wasting so much exploration, like you're playing with the messaging, you're seeing who's going to resonate, you're talking to people, all of that.

[00:11:29] So I just wanted to make that point, because I think that was really important. 

[00:11:32] Maria John: Yeah, in fact it's a point, even though I'm a, I'm a website copywriter, I literally do this for a living, I actually tell people you don't necessarily need a website in the beginning of your business, especially when you're trying to figure things out, you don't even know who your ideal clients are, you don't know who the right fit buyers are.

[00:11:51] For this specific offer, um, so you can actually put out an offer without a well designed sales page or well designed website. [00:12:00] Yes, it's going to be harder to sell the offer, but it doesn't mean people are not going to buy. The most important thing at the end of the day is your offer and the kind of service you provide.

[00:12:11] So that's really what it is. 

[00:12:14] Andrea Elibero: Yeah, a thousand percent. And you said also that you can DIY your offer and I'm going to argue that's similar to what you're saying that yes, you can also DIY your website, that having a well designed, intentional offer that supports your dream life and is rooted in your unique magic is really important.

[00:12:32] And I'm saying that because one, this is what I help people with mainly and two, because it comes from my own experience of having Offers are doing things and kind of letting my business lead me and letting that that resulted in burnout that resulted in me not being super happy with my business and eventually once I figured all these things out and pivoted and I'm doing now what I you know like love everything is so much better so.

[00:12:56] If you were like, okay, I don't really like love what I'm doing. I think there's [00:13:00] other things out there potentially, then let's chat because you can definitely benefit from having some outside eyes and outside perspective on just looking at your business in general. So I wanted to put that in there as well.

[00:13:12] Maria John: Oh, thousand percent because, um, back in 2021, I think I was still doing blogs. I was doing a lot of different things because, um, I was trying to figure out my business. I was trying to figure out. What direction I really wanted to head into, um, and that's actually when I experienced burnout. I bleached my hair I did a lot of different things.

[00:13:33] It felt like I had a breakup with my own business Um, just because I wasn't liking where I was at And in fact, I think it took me another and even though at the time I knew I wanted to start website copywriting Uh, I didn't know what direction I should take. I didn't know how to package the offer Um, and I think it took me until 2023 to land on this offer that I'm selling.

[00:13:56] Um, and another year to really just test out the messaging, test [00:14:00] out how people are responding to it on the discovery calls in marketing materials, all of that, so thousand percent. If you can hire someone like NGA to figure it out for you, definitely do that. Um, I think every single part of your business, um, can be DIY, but you would obviously save so much.

[00:14:19] Uh, time and resources, just having an expert look over it for you. 

[00:14:25] Andrea Elibero: It's, yeah, it's crazy, right? And I know that you feel the same way about website copy. And, and I agree with you on that as well, because it's so important that you can have a business, you can do it all yourself. And when you, when I think about all the things that I've done myself, I was like, wow, I really wish that I had realized that having somebody who really knows what they're doing, not only would it save me a lot of time, but it would save a lot of mental load, and anguish, and capacity issues, and I don't know, just all sorts of things.

[00:14:58] So you [00:15:00] can't outsource every, I mean maybe you can, but like I can't outsource everything, you know, like so. So there's a time and a place for, you know, for all of those things and there's seasons for everything. So it's like, and I have things planned, right, to outsource it. I'm not outsourcing right now, but I'm like, yes, I have, like, I know which expert I'm tapping into next.

[00:15:15] And there's like a waiting list, you know, there's like things happening. So things move so much faster and you build up your confidence too, right? Like, I think that's an interesting thing that people don't necessarily realize is that when you have somebody, like, I bet you've seen it with your clients that, like, they're like, oh, maybe they're a little bit shy about talking about what they do, but now once they have your copy in place, now all of a sudden they're like, oh, this is, my business is amazing, and now I can't wait to talk about it.

[00:15:43] Right? 

[00:15:43] Maria John: Yeah, absolutely. Especially because, um, the biggest problem with my clients is that they actually don't know how to talk about the offer. They don't know how to talk about their services. Uh, and a lot of times they don't know what's great about working with them. Um, [00:16:00] they'll tell me that, Oh, my clients love working with me, but if I could define why I'm not really sure what those reasons are, um, and I've noticed, so, uh, I'm actually working with a client I worked with and 2023, I wrote his website, um, And he came back to me because he's repositioning his services a little.

[00:16:20] And we were talking about how much he's pricing now compared to 2023. And he's increased his prices like 10 times, which is, I was just like, wait, hold up, you're you've increased it by that much. And he's like, yeah, it's, uh, it's been pretty easy to sell the offer. And I, we both, he was like, it's a big thank you to you.

[00:16:41] And that's when I realized that, Oh, copy. Does have defined, um, does have a defined ROI. Even if you don't think about it, um, like you can, you can increase your prices because you're positioned in a much better fitting way. You're also able to, like you said, get excitement about your [00:17:00] offer because you know, exactly the kind of transformation you provide, the kind of value you provide.

[00:17:05] Um, and I, I. And unfortunately, it's taken me so long to realize that because I always thought that oh, copy is words on your website that sell, but it's also more than that. It's also about the kind of feeling that you have about your business and the kind of trust that you have in your services because you trust that this is the kind of transformation you provide for your clients.

[00:17:25] Andrea Elibero: Yes, and when you fully appreciate that, then yeah, you're more excited about it, you're more confident, and all of that is so much more magnetic. And then it's easier to get clients, and then you can TEDx your prices, and people are still signing up, right? So it's all, it's all connected, and it's all really cool.

[00:17:41] The thing, the next thing I want to dive into is that you had mentioned briefly that, oh, you do a process a lot different than a lot of other copywriters. And so two things about this. One is that. It was so interesting to me that you, actually, interesting and not surprising, right? That one, you didn't highlight that, right?

[00:17:58] Like, it wasn't previously, it was not [00:18:00] highlighted, that it's like, oh, my process is unique and different and it's special. And a lot of people, I feel like, are the same, because they don't realize that, like, because they're inside, like, their little fish tank, you know, looking out, you're like, oh, this is just what I do, obviously, so it's not a big deal, or whatever, everybody, you know, that's, it's fine.

[00:18:19] And I feel like that's kind of common. But the other thing that I want to dive into is how did you come up with your process, your unique process of delving into people's copy and having this six hour long call with them and like really diving in deep and and where did that come from? 

[00:18:38] Maria John: Yeah, so, um, back in 2021, or I think this is 2020, uh, height of the pandemic, I was working with a, an agency based out of South Africa, and I was writing blogs and doing content strategy for their clients.

[00:18:54] And what they would do was they would provide me with a brief, and this was pretty much every client, [00:19:00] they would provide me with a brief, and they would tell me, okay, write, write a blog based off of this. But, Over time, I realized there was a slight issue with this because I was actually not able to understand who they were trying to speak to when it came to this blog or this piece of content.

[00:19:17] Um, and you know, when I questioned them about that, about this, they were just like, um, Honey, we're not paying you nearly enough to think about this so much, which fair to them. And they were kind of being honest because they were like, you're just writing a blog. It's a short piece of content. You don't have to think about this too much.

[00:19:37] But then when I moved over to copy, I realized the same thing. A lot of copywriters would start their projects with the questionnaire, especially because I was studying the whole. thing. It was very new to me. Um, but I felt like a questioner wasn't enough because when you ask someone, okay, who is your ideal client?

[00:19:57] Uh, they'll respond with something [00:20:00] that they, they're presuming, uh, about their previous clients about, about the service that they provide. It's only when you ask them further questions about it, really diving deep and sort of workshopping the whole process. That's when we can derive. What makes their specific service, um, you know, um, so good?

[00:20:19] Why should people choose their service over anyone else in their industry? Why is it that this client is not the right fit but this specific buyer is? Um, there's so many elements to the kind of person who lands on your website that you want to make sure you kind of nail that before writing the website.

[00:20:38] Um, and I also, uh, and working with agencies, I also understood that before starting the brand strategy process, they were hosting these workshops with their clients. The difference is they were charging like 50, 60, 000. And obviously I am not charging that much working with small business owners. Um, And I noticed the value in that [00:21:00] process, just going like doing a deep dive of the brand and going into the heart of the business, um, and understanding that when you actually just nail it from the beginning to really lay down that foundation, um, your messaging position narrative becomes so much easier.

[00:21:17] And that's how I adapted my process. 

[00:21:20] Andrea Elibero: I'll say that I have been guilty of skipping over some of the foundational pieces back in the day and never again and sometimes I get tempted right because you get it you're like I just want to put this out there and you're and and you feel like that's going to get you results right when actually the thing that gets you results.

[00:21:37] Is the foundational pieces. Is the diving deep and then everything else is so much easier once you know those things and you really really know them and can adopt them. So the question I have for you is were there any emotions around doing things differently from what you know a typical or standard copywriter would do in terms of well [00:22:00] my process now is different.

[00:22:02] Maria John: Oh, um, that's a really good question, because I actually had a lot of feelings of shame and guilt when it came to this process. In fact, I, when I used to talk about this on discovery calls, I actually used to say, Oh, it's a really long process and, um, kind of hard to it. And, um, I wasn't really selling it because I, in my head, I was like, Oh, it's such a long and different process compared to other copywriters who do it in a much more easier way.

[00:22:35] But as I did it with more clients, I realized that,

[00:22:39] I'm so sorry, can you hear something in the background?

[00:22:41] so when I figured out that. My process was really different to other copywriters. I actually felt feelings of shame and guilt, uh, guilt about making my clients go through this long and arduous process because, Hey, I'm asking them like, Hey, can you spend three, six hours with me on a one on one call?[00:23:00] 

[00:23:00] Um, And honestly, like in the beginning, when I used to sell this on discovery calls, and in fact, even on my sales page, I think that's one of the reasons I didn't have this very clearly defined on my sales page. Uh, on the discovery call, I'd explain it to them and wouldn't be super enthusiastic about the process because I was like, oh, this is, you know, we're just going to be spending a lot of time, but it's really, really important to the whole process.

[00:23:26] For me getting the website copy. So even though these potential clients were excited about it, they would hear the way I describe it and wouldn't be sold on it by the end of it. But then as I worked with more clients, I actually realized the benefits of doing this, about nailing their. Messaging and positioning from the get go because all the other parts of their content outside their website copy becomes so much easier.

[00:23:53] They know exactly how to talk about the offer. They know how to sell the offer on the discovery call. They know how to [00:24:00] actually talk about it on their socials when, um, just putting out a new post. All of that saves them so much time and obviously when some a right fit client lands on their website, they know exactly why it's a good fit.

[00:24:13] So even though it is a workshop, um, it's, and maybe in the beginning we're taking more hours than the typical copywriting process, getting that right from the get go just helps so much. 

[00:24:26] Andrea Elibero: And then, so after, was it the fact that you were then, you had some evidence now, like, Oh, people like this. Oh, it's good.

[00:24:34] Oh, they're getting results. And then that helped to shift your mindset. 

[00:24:37] Maria John: Yeah, because I was selling this offer for about a year and I worked with a few clients. And honestly, at the end of each workshop, they were like, wait, this was actually really fun. The time just flew by. And they also mentioned that I was a really good workshop guide, which was very helpful.

[00:24:55] Oh, cool. Yeah. And because I'd seen the way, uh, [00:25:00] agencies were doing it, they were, they usually host a workshop at the beginning of the brand strategy process. Uh, the only difference is they're selling theirs for like 50, 60, 000. And obviously that's not the same for my case because I'm selling it to a different clientele.

[00:25:15] Um, but seeing the way that they were doing it and being able to replicate the value of the process. for my own clients and seeing the difference in their website copy just made it so much easier for me to understand that wait, I have a different process and it is really freaking awesome. 

[00:25:32] Andrea Elibero: I love that the the It's such a good lesson, right that i'm sure there are people listening like oh This is how everybody else does it so I should do it this way when in actuality that is really limiting and having the confidence even though you didn't necessarily Believe in yourself, and you know, at first there was a little stumbling, but you still did it right?

[00:25:57] You didn't actually let the fact that it was different [00:26:00] stop you, and then we're able to appreciate and really sell that your unique method like your framework, the way you do things is really special. I think that that's really really important to highlight because I'm sure people like All the time have these interesting ideas and like, oh, nobody else does it that way and then maybe kind of back off and don't do them, right?

[00:26:18] And don't do that. Like, like, like whatever makes you unique, that's the thing that's going to sell your business, right? That's the thing that's going to sell your offer. And if you're excited about it, and there are ways to, to up your confidence about it before having the, the results, of course, like also.

[00:26:36] And. It just, it just makes such a difference and I really hope that people take that as inspiration, like your story as inspiration, that you can. Do your thing your way, and don't let other people and the kind of like the standard of how everybody does things dictate how to do your offer and set up your business, right?

[00:26:57] Because if you were doing it the other way, I [00:27:00] bet that one, maybe, maybe you get like, I'm sure you get great results because you're a great copywriter, but like maybe it wouldn't be as good. And maybe you also wouldn't love your business as much. Right? Because you have an amazing time doing these and you go so much deeper and it's a really cool process that you enjoy doing.

[00:27:18] So Own your uniqueness is that a long way of saying that about your uniqueness. 

[00:27:25] Maria John: Yeah, absolutely. And, um, I think like just being able to do it for clients. Like it can be an idea in your head and idea of your process. But over the years, I feel like I've been able to perfect it and eventually. Because of the way clients were reacting to it and benefiting from it.

[00:27:47] So, um, really like just repeating what you said, just own your process because. At the end of the day, sometimes that's what differentiates you from a lot of other people in your niche. 

[00:27:58] Andrea Elibero: Right, because there are so many, right? [00:28:00] There's a gazillion website copywriters. So in addition to the fact that you're you, and it's like, oh, you do this thing differently, and that could pique somebody's interest.

[00:28:08] Like, oh, that's interesting, right? And like, that's the different, the differential. So, amazing. Okay, so in your years, you've been in this game for a hot minute. So in your years of growth and all of these things, What has been the hardest period? What has been your biggest hurdle, do you think, in your journey of being a business owner?

[00:28:30] Maria John: Yeah, so coming back to that burnout in 2021, so I was doing a couple of different things because I started freelancing in 2018 and I was essentially having my best income months. I would say, uh, I was working with clients who were paying me really well because I introduced SEO into my offer capabilities and I was really good at it as well.

[00:28:52] So, you know, um, I had, um, I had no lack of clients. I had no lack of inquiries, [00:29:00] but I was just really unhappy with the way my business was going because I actually did not like doing blogs and SEO. It was just really stressful. And I knew I wanted to transition over to website copy, but the problem is selling blogs is a lot easier because it's packaged in a small way that like in a week you can have two blogs, not that's not an issue to sell.

[00:29:24] The problem is when you're selling website copy because it's a big project, it's a longer, um, It's a longer process and obviously the ROI is way higher. So I was just really struggling to just break into that niche and also just struggling to come to terms with the fact that I would be starting over from scratch.

[00:29:44] Uh, that's really the whole issue, right? Especially when at the time I didn't know this, but I was essentially an accidental entrepreneur. I was trying to start up a business. Um, And so I actually just burnt out because I kept pushing into blogs. [00:30:00] I kept trying to, you know, sell that part of my business that I did not like and enjoy.

[00:30:05] And in fact, I had to sell emails in November to all of my clients saying, I'm sorry, I need to take a break. Um, and one of my clients said, sent me like a hundred extra dollars saying like, I'm sorry, you're going through this and just really sweet. The best, one of the best things I remember. Um, and so I actually decided to just completely take a step back from my business.

[00:30:26] I had a good amount of savings, um, and I actually went on vacation to like a beat city. I bleached my hair purple. It was a fun time to be 25 and just trying to figure out what side of the business I wanted to take on. Um, and then eventually when I did come back into the business specifically, um, I was still struggling because now I did.

[00:30:49] want to get into website copy. But the problem is at the time I was still selling, like I mentioned, selling my services like a freelancer, not realizing that, oh, you need to actually [00:31:00] package your services. You need to sell this, sell it like a business owner. Um, and then. Luckily, I chanced upon this mentorship with a New York based copywriter, um, and I didn't have the best portfolio, but she just really liked my personality.

[00:31:14] So like, you know what, let's bring you on board for a paid mentorship, uh, which was fun. And in that process, uh, while writing copy for her clients, uh, who are coaches, um, I realized that, oh, this is something I can see myself doing for a very long time. Um, and so with that realization, I decided to finally start saying no to non website copy clients.

[00:31:41] I said no to blogs. I said no to SEO. Um, I said no to other things. And even though my income took a big hit for that next one year. Um, it started picking up again in 2023. So yeah, that period of time was very difficult because I didn't know if it was the right decision. I didn't [00:32:00] know if me stepping away from a profitable venture of my business was the right idea, but I'm really glad I actually did it because, um, Well, now I'm able to thrive and actually just celebrate, uh, parts of my business that I absolutely in love with, which I think is super important because as a business owner, you have to be in love with your business to be able to sell it and just be show up for yourself.

[00:32:25] Andrea Elibero: What kept you going? Well, one, what kept you going and saying no, how did you stick to your conviction of no, I'm going this way, I'm not going back to this kind of easy money doing things that I don't really want to do, but the money is here, I need the money. 

[00:32:43] Maria John: Yeah, well, for starters, um, I've always been really good with money, um, and savings and investing, um, because I've been investing since I was 23.

[00:32:52] 21. And, um, as a result of that, I had that backlog of months of savings and just [00:33:00] being able to manage my expenses, even if I didn't have months where I was not earning a single dollar, um, And then the second thing was just realizing that all that time I was writing blogs and working on other clients projects, I could actually spend that on my own business and use those hours to sell my website copywriting services.

[00:33:23] Um, so it was just. Like, holding on to the vision I had for the future of my business and just sticking to it and being, like, so sure of my own capabilities, I think belief in my own self was super important in that period of time. 

[00:33:40] Andrea Elibero: Okay. Yes. Obsessed. I'm obsessed with this answer. You know, what's really funny is that, so I did the same, I went through a similar thing, but a year later, and also I started in 2019, so I wonder if there's something with, like, the timing where, you know, this business, you're kind of like, I'm a freelancer.

[00:33:53] I don't know what I'm doing. And then you kind of figure it out. You make all this money successful. You're like, wait, I don't really love the, you know, this is like fine, [00:34:00] but like, I don't want to be doing this all day, every day. And then you burn out and like, build up the resiliency and conviction to say, this is what I actually want and I'm not going to stop.

[00:34:13] Right, like I'm not gonna stop until I achieve this because I know, you know, it's like everything that you said I can 100 percent relate to because I felt exactly the same way in my cycle of business. Growth and transition and belief and all of that. So, so that's really interesting and I'm yeah now I want to do some research study I'm so curious If uh how that works out, but so many important lessons there And thank you so much for sharing that because that's really really really valuable and it comes down yeah a lot because again i've gone through the same thing of the belief and the conviction and That you hold like for yourself and your business like I know that I can do this I just need to get through this period and I love that you said that it's a I don't love that It was a year But I love that you said that it was a it took you a year and to normalize that Because that is honestly I feel [00:35:00] the same way like I feel like mine was similar timing where it just takes time Yeah.

[00:35:05] And that's fine. You know? And just, and it's helpful to know that. And not think like, oh, after three months, if it's not, I didn't remake all the money, you know, that I got the same level that I was before, then I'm a failure. No. Right? And I think it, I don't know, something in me tells me it takes even longer when it's your path.

[00:35:22] When it's like what you're called to do. 

[00:35:25] Maria John: Um, yeah, absolutely. I feel like, uh, until last year I was still looking for jobs. I remember, um, I remember I was interviewing with a really big airline in the Middle East, uh, for a senior copyright role, and it was a very long process, it was taking me months. And I remember just.

[00:35:46] Like praying to the gods that if this is not the right path for me, you're not going to let this work out because I really wanted my business to work out. And at the end, they, like when I checked the job [00:36:00] application portal, they just said that. It's undefined my status. And that's when I felt like it was like a sign that, okay, I really, it just means that I'm on the right path with my business and I have to just really stick to it.

[00:36:15] Um, and I feel like just a week later, I ended up getting one of my biggest projects. And, um, it, I think that's the same, that's the thing with like running a business one month, you're just like, Oh, this is the worst thing ever. I don't know when the next. Like income is going to come in and then suddenly just something works out.

[00:36:35] Um, and I also think this just comes to practice and belief that, um, you're going to have to put, um, months of work into the business without knowing if it's going to get a return. It's like planting the seeds in the ground and, um, you know, just working the soil to make sure that it's healthy and, you know, you've got that foundation down because it's only months and maybe, a while before you start to [00:37:00] see the seeds grow.

[00:37:01] So it really just translates so well into knowing how the business is. Because even when you are successful, there's going to be some periods of time where it's a little slower. You're not sure how things are gonna go. Um, And like you said, that conviction and belief in yourself is just so important. And 

[00:37:19] Andrea Elibero: to, yeah, amazing points.

[00:37:22] And to carry that one point further is that I feel like people often look at people online and are like, well, I made a gazillion dollars in three minutes. And then they feel like, oh, that's the norm. And if I'm not doing that, then I'm a failure. And that's not the norm. And, you know, like they're not telling you that they also spent the five years before that doing, you know.

[00:37:43] testing different things and going in and out, you don't know the full story. And that's one of the reasons why I have this, this podcast is because I want people to understand the real story and to know what entrepreneurship really looks like behind the scenes and to give me in spite or no, okay, all these people can [00:38:00] do it.

[00:38:00] That's their real story. They struggled also in certain times. There's not just been one easy road, you know, and okay, I can do this too. And to have the expectations that. It's not going to necessarily be an easy road, but it's going to be an amazing journey and a growth journey. And you change as a person when you're on this road.

[00:38:19] And so it was funny because I was at a this like meetup type thing over the weekend and somebody asked me like, Oh, but you don't ever want to go back to like, where I was like, no, whatever I've gone through in my business, I do not want to, like, I don't think I can work for anybody ever again. Now I'd feel like so unfulfilled, so terrible.

[00:38:40] Maria John: Yeah, absolutely. I think, um, you know, I actually used to feel a lot of shame with the fact that there were like, there were some, some months in my business where it was just not working out. Or like I mentioned that you're where it was just. So bad for me, for my business and in terms of income and just trying to figure things [00:39:00] out.

[00:39:00] Uh, but as I've sort of slowly started building a community with other business owners, especially with other copywriters, I realized that there's always going to be months where you actually don't know where your next client is coming from. Uh, unless you're like, like really, really at the top. Uh, but I was, I remember speaking to this copywriter who I really respect, who's.

[00:39:24] Been at this for years in the game. She even had like a 60, 000 digital product launch last year and really successful and she was very open about the fact that there were some months last year that she was Tempted to just find a side hustle because she actually didn't know where her next client was going to come from Um, and that's when I realized being open about this stuff is so important because there's going to be someone who's at the beginning stages of their business listening to podcasts like yours and just being like Oh, these entrepreneurs, they must [00:40:00] be having the best months rolling in dough and just like being super successful and successful really has a different definition.

[00:40:08] Um, because like you said, we cannot imagine going back to the 95 because we're so. Like we have our purpose and we're so fulfilled in that. 

[00:40:20] Andrea Elibero: Yes, and that is success to me. And so what success means to somebody else may not be the same as it means, you know It should be different. Everybody's success is different.

[00:40:28] So don't be blinded by Or influenced by what you see other people's Definition of successes. What is your definition? And remember that. What is your why? What is your motivation? Why are you doing this? And set yourself up and be uh, smart with your money like you are. And you can get through it. It'll be okay.

[00:40:46] So okay, amazing. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. Can you please let everybody know how they can stay in touch with you? If you have any free gifts or anything like that, um, this is your time to share it now. 

[00:40:59] Maria John: [00:41:00] Well, I am super active on threads and Instagram. Uh, I'm available at mariojohnwrites.

[00:41:05] And, uh, as like a free gift to the listeners of Andrea's podcast, uh, I do. So over the last year, I conducted over 50 copy audits. This was a mix of one hour audits and mini audits I was giving to my subscribers. And, uh, over the process, uh, when I collected all that data and analyzed it, I realized that People were struggling with the same three conversion mistakes on their website.

[00:41:31] So I turned that into a free workshop with a DIY template, so that you don't have to hire me to figure it out for you. Uh, and, um, Andrea will obviously link that in the, in the show notes below. 

[00:41:44] Andrea Elibero: Yes. Amazing. Thank you so much for being here, Maria. It was a pleasure. 

[00:41:48] Maria John: Thank you, Andrea, for a wonderful conversation. 

[00:41:51] Andrea Elibero: Thank you so much for joining us today. I really hope you [00:42:00] found inspiration and insights from today's episode. You know, scaling your business intentionally and from the inside out is a transformational process, but I'm here to support you every step of the way. Head on over to dancing leaf solutions.com/resources for free tools to help you do just that.

[00:42:17] And thank you again for being a part of the Solepreneur Scaling Stories community. Your presence and dedication to growth inspiring me every day.